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SARA: All right, friends, welcome to another episode of the Positive Gene podcast. This is Sara Kavanaugh, and today we have a very special guest, Natalie Sampson. Natalie is a board certified genetic counselor and the founder of Golden Genetics. She is dedicated to transforming healthcare through personalized, integrative, and preventative approaches. Natalie holds certifications in integrative health coaching and is completing her certification in integrative and functional nutrition.
Her practice uniquely combines traditional genetic testing with cutting-edge nutritional science, focusing on cancer, neurology, nutrigenomics. Natalie and I connected over social media and our shared goal of empowering people with the knowledge they need to manage their health proactively and specifically in the space of hereditary cancer risk. So today she is here to discuss how integrative genetic counseling can play a crucial role in managing health risks, and we're going to have a special focus on pancreatic cancer because at the time of recording this and launching the episode, it will be pancreatic cancer awareness month. So let's get started.
Welcome Natalie.
NATALIE: Oh, thank you so much for having me. So excited to be here and just love this podcast. So thank you. Yeah, thank you.
SARA: All righty, well let's start with sharing your journey into genetic counseling and then what led you to integrate the alternative practices, I guess you could call that, or integrative practices like nutrigenomics into your approach at Golden Genetics.
NATALIE: Yeah, definitely. Okay, so I went into genetic counseling originally because I always was so fascinated with how the body worked from a really micro level. And so genetics, you know, I love studying genetics because that is in essence, I think, you know, the root of a lot of conditions or diseases or how we respond to the environment and our health. And so I thought it was fascinating, but I also really wanted to work on or work with people one on one. And I really liked the counseling component of it.
So genetic counseling was kind of a perfect blend of those two passions. But when I went into genetic counseling school, so through my journey, I ended up choosing to specialize in cancer. And the reason was because I really liked how there was an opportunity to be proactive and preventative after understanding your genetics and, you know, your potential hereditary risk. And so I really, you know, love that aspect of it. So I was working as a cancer genetic counselor in a hospital system. And while I was there, I always also really appreciated holistic health care. And I myself was working with a nutritionist and a naturopath. And so when I was in the, you know, when I was in oncology and talking to patients about hereditary risk, I really, you know, thought, you know, we as genetic counselors have such an amazing opportunity to guide patients in this preventative proactive realm. And we know so much about screenings and surgeries and how amazing these modalities can be for risk reduction. But, you know, we weren't really necessarily talking about nutrition and lifestyle and environmental exposures and how these things can also play a huge role in cancer risk. And so, you know, with that, I kind of thought, wow, you know, as genetic counselors who have this time with patients, can we go deeper with helping patients and guiding them with that risk reduction?
I also, you know, had family history of cancer and kind of saw firsthand how important this conversation could be. And I think as genetic counselors, we have just such an amazing opportunity here because we have the ability to speak with patients for longer periods of time. Oftentimes oncologists are, you know, they have less time with patients and, you know, a lot of practitioners kind of have less time. And so I was, you know, thinking, can we at least play a role in guiding patients to referrals and, you know, specialists in this area or ourselves also be able to help patients a little bit more in these aspects. So long story short, that is why I started my practice to try to bring an integrative perspective to cancer genetics. And then also it kind of expanded from there to incorporate also other diseases like Alzheimer's and, you know, heart disease and then nutrigenomics as well, which, you know, we can get into more. So, but that is really how I became passionate about starting Golden Genetics to bring that approach.
SARA: That’s great. I think it makes perfect sense integrating those two worlds together. You're right. You get to have that conversation, you know, as somebody who's been on the receiving end of working with a genetic counselor, you know, they can talk about best practices and lifestyle changes and that sort of thing, but not in a practical sense. Right. And I think what I love about what you bring to the table with incorporating integrative medicine and holistic approaches is really looking at the whole person through this journey.
Thinking through the patients that you're working with, you know, all walks of life, all ages and all phases. One area though that we are seeing more recently is the rising cancer rates in younger populations. So maybe you can talk us through that kind of recent, I don't want to say that it's a recent discovery per se, it’s, I think it's a trend that has been seen most notably I've read more so like in the colorectal cancer space, is seeing people under 50. We've seen this, you know, more recently, was it James Verbeek shared that he'd been going through colon cancer treatment over the last year and, you know, he's in his, you know, I mean, his mid to late forties at the time when he has shared this. And what I appreciate about folks like, you know, those that are in the media or in the spotlight in some way sharing their story that this does, this disease or other types of cancers are rising. We may have a lower incidence, like the bigger picture rates are going down overall, but then some cancers we're finding in folks that are of younger populations that we haven't seen before. But yeah, with cancer increasingly affecting younger populations, what are the key genetic factors that we should be aware of? What are you seeing in your space? And then how can proactive genetic screenings help us?
NATALIE: Yeah, so there's so much here, like you were saying, you know, I think there could be so many reasons and we're still trying to understand and figure out, you know, why we're seeing younger populations impacted. But I think regardless of, you know, all the reasons, this is where I think genetics is such a powerful tool to help younger people be proactive. And, you know, I think a lot of people don't really understand how powerful it can be. I, you know, I know that people have somewhat of a fear of understanding their cancer risk, which I fully, you know, that is totally valid and why as genetic counselors, we are trained in counseling to help you through decision making on if you want to know that risk. But I think a lot of people don't understand that there are a lot of things we can do about it if you're at increased risk. I oftentimes hear people or patients say, you know, I don't think there's anything else I would do about it if I knew. So what's the point? But that is where, you know, a huge aspect of understanding our genetics and the power of it comes in with enhanced surveillance and potentially risk reducing surgeries.
So a huge part of cancer is there's such a difference between cancer being caught at an early stage versus late stage. I also think a lot of people don't understand that as well. I'm sure your audience does, but, you know, cancer diagnosed at a later stage, that is where a lot of people may not have treatment options even. And that is where, especially with pancreatic cancer, unfortunately, you know, you do hear people given short amount of times to live beyond that. And when cancer is caught late, there's so much more we can do about it. And so with genetics, if we understand that you are at increased risk, you have the ability to qualify potentially for early screening and that can save your life. Because if you're able to catch cancer early, most often it can, you know, just be removed with surgery and sometimes further treatment isn't even necessary.
And so with younger populations, I think a lot of people don't know that if you're at increased risk with, you know, genetically, then you can even sometimes start screening as young as, you know, 25 or 30. So depending on the gene mutation.
So I think, you know, it's so helpful and especially important now that we're seeing cancer increasing, or, you know, cancer at younger and younger populations, that's where genetics is even more essential. So if you are at that increased risk, we can catch it early, you know, so I think that's one part. And then also, it's so helpful to work with a genetic counselor, because that also allows you to stay up to date on new technology and research.
So, you know, there are things that are coming out all the time. For instance, a lot of people are starting to hear about a test called gallery or grail, which is a blood test that can, you know, does have the potential to detect cancer through a simple blood test rather than, you know, going through screenings and surgeries. And so, you know, as research like this evolves, we can tell our patients and, you know, give our patients this insight so that they are up to date with that research as well. The last thing I'll say on that too is, you know, from an integrative perspective, which is obviously the way that I try to view things in my practice is, you know, we do know that things like there, there, there are differences in diets and there are differences in lifestyle and the habits and chronic stress and all of these things that are playing a role in cancer development as well.
So, you know, it is something we're starting to wonder, you know, what aspects outside of genetics could be playing a role in why we're seeing younger diagnoses. And so I think, you know, being able to talk about that with patients as well, and having, you know, even younger populations understand the impact of the outside world and also internal world, you know, chronic stress, etc., that that has on their risk is just so important too. So I think being able to talk through that with people as well will be helpful.
SARA: I guess while we're on that topic, what does that process look like when somebody reaches out to you? I imagine much of what you do with your patients is done virtually. Take me through what that process looks like.
NATALIE: So I always meet with the patient initially for, I say, pre-test counseling, but just an initial session before we even do testing to see where they're at, because, you know, I think there's kind of a problem where right now in genetics, it's genetic testing, all these laboratories are so available to people, but oftentimes, unfortunately, I see patients coming in with genetic tests that, you know, aren't the best quality or aren't accurate.
So we always see to, you know, where you're at before we order a genetic test, because also for me, I need to make sure if we are ordering testing, we're ordering the right one. In that appointment, review your personal and family history. And then from my standpoint, I'll also talk about your current lifestyle and habits and diets and, you know, how you feel. So assessing, you know, your life and yourself from a holistic perspective. But then we'll talk about, you know, if you've already done testing, we can talk about the updates that have happened potentially to your results. So if you've already done testing that, you know, again, is accurate and we trust that laboratory, etc., technically the genetic tests are one-time tests. So your DNA doesn't change from when you're born. So I think, you know, people ask me that all the time. Technically, you know, if you know that you have a mutation in a certain gene, that's something you were born with and won't change. But our research on that specific change in that gene changes all the time. And so that means that our recommendations that we follow and guidelines that we follow change all the time.
So that's why I think, you know, it's helpful to check in if you've already done genetic testing with a genetic counselor to see if there are updates on that and, you know, what we know in terms of what risks there are that are associated with that change. And then if we're doing testing for the first time, you know, of course, being able to choose the specific test that aligns with your personal, your family history, your personal goals, your family history, and, you know, what makes sense for you at this stage. So I think all of those factors. And then, of course, there's nutrigenomics. This field is oftentimes not discussed, you know, when you see a genetic counselor.
So I think, you know, I love being able to offer this to patients. I think there are, unfortunately, there is a lot of misinformation in the space, like I was kind of talking about. So I think you have to definitely be careful with ordering this on your own. But nutrigenomics is such a powerful tool, in my opinion, to assess and get deeper and look at different genes. And I love to combine this test, especially with my patients who are at increased risk, you know, who have mutations in kind of more, I say, like high risk genes, because this type of testing can help us understand how your body will respond to the world around you. And if we can incorporate things in our diet or lifestyle that can be supportive for other genes that are going on in your body. So for example, the inflammatory pathway, there are a lot of genes we can actually test for associated with inflammation. And we know inflammation, you know, can can play a role in cancer development. So I love to also combine these types of tests.
And, you know, for inflammation, for instance, if we see that you genetically have an increased risk for chronic inflammation, for instance, can we talk about the anti inflammatory diet or, again, get this information and then potentially refer you to a nutritionist with this information. So it's just another way to incorporate personalized health care to that's really interesting. And peaks my interest to think of something like anti inflammatory, specifically for people that are at high risk for cancer, right?
SARA: This is one potentially simple way in addition to already making some necessary nutrition changes or adapting things in your environment is best that you can, like reducing alcohol and not smoking I mean, there's a lot of elements, but when you have some data to kind of back it up, it helps you prioritize and really focus on the things that will make the biggest impact quicker. Right?
NATALIE: Yeah...
I love zooming in on kind of the cellular components of nutrigenomics, which is inflammation, detoxification, oxidative stress, and methylation, which there's a lot with methylation, there's kind of a misinformation going around about methylation right now. But regardless of that, it's so interesting to be able to see where we could potentially support you in those pathways. And like you said, inflammation, detoxification pathways, oxidative stress, for instance, can, you know, we know those pathways can play a role. That's why oftentimes people recommend antioxidants in the diet to be, you know, preventative against cancer.
So I love being able to combine those tests, like you said, and yeah, get even more specific with what you're already doing. I think I find a lot of patients who are trying to be as preventative and proactive as they can, if they already know that they have a mutation, you know, in a high-risk gene, or you know, I say high-risk, but the genes that aren't associated with nutrigenomics, for instance, really like to, you know, be able to get specific because they're like, okay, we're already eating vegetables, you know, we're already doing the thing. So I think it's such an amazing tool to be able to get even more microscopic or, you know, again, like on using our genetics to be able to be more specific with that.
SARA: Yeah, that's great. Thanks for sharing that information.
All right, so let's switch gears a little bit and talk about this current month as we're recording this. It is November 2024. We are observing pancreatic cancer awareness month. So how do genetics influence or inform maybe our risk of pancreatic cancer? And in the patients that you're working with that, do you have that risk identified? What are some proactive steps that individuals can take in minimizing or bringing awareness to that risk?
NATALIE: Yeah, so I think when we're thinking about increased risk for pancreatic cancer, and how our genetics relate to that, I think a lot of people will think about BRCA1 and 2, also known as the BRCA genes. And, you know, these genes relate to increased risk of breast cancer, ovarian cancer, and pancreatic cancer. And they're, they're well known genes, I think that also is primarily due to they were some of the first genes we identified associated with increased risk for cancer. But I hear a lot of patients saying, you know, I've already done BRCA testing and I'm negative. So I already know that I'm not at increased risk of pancreatic cancer. So I just want to mention there are so many genes that we've identified now associated with pancreatic cancer.
And I just want to nerd out for a little on what these genes do. I know you've had a genetic counselor here, so you may have gone over this. But I think it's really important to understand when we're referring to these genes. So we have certain genes in our bodies that their role is to actually suppress tumor growth. So what that means is their role in our bodies is to stop tumors from growing. We also have other genes that help repair damage in our cells or our DNA. And so what happens when we're referring to mutations in these genes, what we're what we mean is that some people are born with a change, almost like a misspelling in these genes that are supposed to protect us against cancer or stop tumors from growing. And so people who have a change or also known as, you know, a harmful change or a mutation in these genes, the reason they're at increased risk is because they have less protection against cancer, or they have less an ability to stop tumors from growing.
And so a lot of people think I have the gene or I don't, but it's actually, do you have a harmful change in those genes? Because we all have those genes, those genes are actually really beneficial for our bodies and they help us. So if you have a mutation in one, one copy of one of those genes, that's why we know you could be at increased risk because you have less protection against cancer. So I like I like talking about that with patients, because I think a lot of patients are like, I have the gene or I don't, but it's actually, do you have a mutation in this gene or not?
SARA: Yeah, you explained that very, very eloquently. Thank you. Yeah, it's, it is difficult to explain it in easy to understand terms because it is easier. It's easy to get feeling like it can get really complex. And I know there are some, some folks like Mark Hicks and folks that are out there creating visuals to help us understand really what does that mutation mean? And FORCE has some great visuals out there as well to help us really put it into layman's terms. We're not scientists, we're not physicians, put it in the terms that make it easy to understand. And I do know that early in my, my journey and trying to articulate what it meant to have Lynch syndrome and check to, I probably misspoke, you know, and now I may stumble on it every so often to just trying to get the terminology right, or depending on who I'm talking to. And I think that's a great sound bite of the way you just described this will be a great thing to share with our followers and for people to really mindfully digest what it means to have a mutation in your genes and be able to really articulate that that is something as providers we do find ourselves having to mention from time to time. So that was great.
NATALIE: Yeah, oh, good. I'm glad. Yeah, something on that note too, that I just want to mention is because we have two copies of each gene. Oftentimes when we're talking about mutations in genes, we usually are seeing that only one copy of the set of genes has a mutation in it. Most often, sometimes there are two copies. But with that being said, because patients have that other copy working, you know, it's just something to note that having a mutation in these genes doesn't mean that you are going to 100% get a diagnosis of cancer. So that's why we always say, you know, increase risk and you know, why we want to be proactive as much as we can. But just something that, you know, I wanted to mention because I think a lot of people think, you know, they're, they're quote doomed if they have this mutation and that's not necessarily true, you know, so
SARA: yeah, great point. Okay, this is something I really wanted to to loop back on. You mentioned the link to BRCA to pancreatic cancer. So there is an increased risk for pancreatic cancer. If you have the BRCA gene mutation, and one thing I want to point out that I hear a lot of people make assumptions that women primarily carry the BRCA mutation. And I mean, thanks to Angelina Jolie for bringing us, you know, to the forefront. But we have to remember men can carry the BRCA mutation in as well, which also puts them at increased risk for breast cancer. And the other cancers associated with BRCA. So can you speak to that little bit of a misnomer I feel like is out there?
NATALIE: Yes, yeah, I hear that all of the time that the BRCA genes only matter for women and that they only relate to breast cancer. So like you said, you know, both of those are myths. So the BRCA genes can increase risk of breast cancer. And then like you mentioned, that also means that that increases risk of male breast cancer. So men can get breast cancer, you know, oftentimes, actually, when we see male breast cancer, we do want to make sure we test if there's a genetic component because male breast cancer is rarer than female breast cancer, which is why, you know, we want to assess if there's genetic component.
But also, like you had mentioned, the mutations in this gene can also increase risk of pancreatic cancer for both males and females. And so that in that increased risk is present for both and in the same amount, meaning it's not more of a common pancreatic cancer is more common in females with this mutation, it's we want to look at that for both men and women. And then also something that I think a lot of people don't know is that the BRCA mutations can also increase risk of prostate cancer for men. So, you know, we want to make sure that we're offering or understanding that risk so that men can have the opportunity for really an increased screening for prostate cancer as well. So yeah, I'm glad you pointed that out. I hear that a lot as well.
Something I also wanted to mention really quick in terms of genetics related to pancreatic cancer is we actually know also that chronic pancreatitis can lead to increased risk of pancreatic cancer or chronic pancreatitis in general can lead to pancreatic cancer. And so something that I think a lot of people don't think about is if you have a family history of pancreatic cancer, sometimes it can actually be making sure we are something that I think is important to remember is we want to also check the pancreatitis genes. Because if you have family history of pancreatic cancer, it actually may be chronic pancreatitis. And there are genes that actually can increase risk or cause chronic pancreatitis. And so if we're able to test for those genes to make sure that we, you know, that you aren't at increased risk of chronic pancreatitis that can lead to pancreatic cancer, just something that can be super important as well. I'm not sure people would always make that connection, right?
SARA: You know, pancreatitis, you think is one of those chronic issues that people just manage, but not understanding that you can have that further tested to understand what your increased risk could be for pancreatic cancer. I mean, the upside is if you have pancreatitis, you're being monitored in some capacity, hopefully.
NATALIE: Yeah, I had a patient one time. The reason I brought that up is because I had a patient one time who came in and she had family history of pancreatic cancer, but she didn't know that family members also had chronic pancreatitis. And sometimes pancreatitis can actually be undiagnosed. And sometimes people actually don't have, you know, the chronic pain associated with it. So they may have it and not even know.
And so I had a patient who had a mutation in a pancreatitis gene and ended up actually being diagnosed with pancreatitis, which I think is, you know, was so helpful because the increased risk for pancreatic cancer was coming from a totally different route than the cancer direct genes to pancreatic cancer. So anyways, that's why I brought that up.
SARA: Yeah, for sure. No, I think it resonates, right? When people can hear, you know, real life instances where people have been tested for something that may be seen fairly benign, but could potentially lead to something, you know, potentially scary. So knowing what those risks are can help you get ahead of the game. And I think with pancreatic cancer, which a lot of people may be anxious about, because oftentimes you hear stories of people who do find it later, because it doesn't present with very obvious symptoms until much later. And maybe you can speak to that a little bit, just while we have a bit of time on this particular topic, you know, what things that people would be looking for, if you could share that.
NATALIE: Yeah, totally. Yeah, I think that's such a big point that a lot of people know that pancreatic cancer, or I hear that they, you know, people say pancreatic cancer is quote, deadly. But the reason that pancreatic cancer, oftentimes people say that about pancreatic cancer also ovarian cancer, is that unfortunately, oftentimes those two cancers are caught at a later stage. So, you know, I think that's why it's especially important to assess your genetics for those two cancers. And for pancreatic cancer, there are screenings like endoscopic ultrasounds or MRIs for people, you know, for high risk individuals. But yeah, I think, you know, pancreatic cancer, we're looking for things like, you know, lower back pain is one that I hear from patients that, you know, they're having this chronic lower back pain, which of course, you know, as we get older, that's common, but it's chronic, you know, GI and lower back pain, or also jaundice. So symptoms that, you know, people, I hear people talk about that, then are later diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.
But again, we really want to, you know, the earlier, the better oftentimes, I mean, I say for cancer, genetic testing, the earlier, the better for pancreatic cancer, so that before symptoms even come up, we can try to catch it as early as we can, if it does come up.
SARA: And you mentioned a couple of things that are done for surveillance of those with high pancreatic cancer risk, which could be endoscopy, MRI, what are other tools that we have in the medical toolbox to assess that risk for screenings or surveillance?
NATALIE: Yeah, so there are certain something that I actually recommend for patients to, you know, who are at increased risk of pancreatic cancer or potential is there are places that specialize in pancreatic cancer screening. So I always recommend patients to look into those places also so that they can be followed to make sure that they're aware of certain or new research that is coming out like Galleri or Grail. So I think that's an example, like there are certain things coming out that will be really beneficial for cancers like pancreatic and ovarian cancer, where those are hard to screen for in general.
So I think making sure that you're up to date with those new technologies are especially important for patients who are at increased risk of pancreatic or ovarian cancer and force that organization is such a good organization for patients to stay up to date on what's out there. We as genetic counselors, oftentimes look at something called NCCN guidelines, which are very confusing to read if you're a patient and I think FORCE does such a good job into, you know, turning those into, I say patient friendly language or just readable language in general. But I think, yeah, those two considerations are helpful.
SARA: Yes, I 100% agree that those resources, whether it be going to FORCE for the more digestible bite size, helpful information into, you know, really context that patients can understand. NCCN as well, I've referenced it as a resource multiple times through the podcast, but yes, it can be difficult to distill the information, especially if you don't want to dig so far down into your particular variant within your mutation, because that can get a little bit tricky too.
All right, so now let's switch gears again to integrating lifestyle, nutrition and environmental factors. Let's get into your wheelhouse and really talk about the interaction between those and then what strategies that you recommend to, you know, really effectively reduce health risks, especially as it relates to cancer.
NATALIE: Totally. Yeah. So I think, you know, it's something that I, okay, so there are certain things we know in research that are going to be helpful versus not helpful for cancer risk. So I think this is such important information for those people who not only everyone, but those, especially when we know genetically, they may be at increased risk. So for example, we know that a diet that is high in processed foods and, you know, sugars, added sugars, oftentimes the standard American diet, unfortunately, can, you know, contribute to potentially increasing risk of cancer, especially because it does, it can increase inflammation in the body. And then on the reverse end, we know anti-inflammatory foods, antioxidants, phytochemicals, whole real foods can help decrease cancer risk. You know, there's a lot of research on the Mediterranean diet as well, which is full of omega threes and, you know, again, antioxidants. And then we know lifestyle habits.
So things like getting movement in, and one thing I love, you know, a lot of people know this information, but I love to talk to patients about these specific things like, okay, we know getting movement in and regular exercise is good for everyone, but what does that look like for you? You know, can we incorporate a lunchtime walk into your, you know, into your day? You know, what is that actually, what are these habits look like for you? How can we help you cook more at home? You know, people are busy, you know, can we talk about a meal prepping plan? So I think this is, you know, this information, we know a lot of this stuff, but it's also how can we incorporate this actually and make this realistic for the, you know, for the patient and because change can be hard and when we get into habits or we're busy and we're eating fast food and it's hard, you know, we know that we have to change, but it seems overwhelming. You know, can we work with you and, you know, start small and really find out what's realistic for you?
Something I talk about too is, I think there's kind of a, like, I think there's kind of an essence that this, that chemicals and toxin exposure is not important, but I feel like personally for me, as I've researched it more, there are things that we can do about it, like switching to clean, you know, personal care products and cleaning products, air and water filtration, you know, these are easy steps. I don't, I don't like to overwhelm people because I know also that I tell my patients, we can't live in a bubble. We don't want to suck out joy out of your life.
So, you know, talking about easy, simple steps that may make a big difference in terms of what they're exposed to and then chronic stress, right? So can we, everyone knows, you know, I think everyone knows by now that chronic stress can really damage our health and especially increased risk of cancer. So again, we can say that, but can we bring that down to, you know, what's realistic for you and what's going on for you? Because, you know, we can say mindfulness and meditation, but is that realistic for you? Can we even start with five minutes in the morning of not checking your phone, for instance, like what are little habits that work for you? So those are things that I like to talk about with patients and aspects.
And then again, I really like getting specific with nutrigenomics. So that's where we can really, you know, get down to. Sulfurifane is, you know, a molecule in broccoli and broccoli sprouts. And we know that that can upregulate and downregulate certain inflammatory genes, et cetera. So we can get really specific there with nutrigenomics.
And then lastly, I always love to refer because of course my expertise is really genetics and helping people, but there's obviously a point where I love to refer patients to specialists, you know, to also help them.
And so from the integrative approach, not only are we talking about screenings, but can I refer them to, you know, a nutritionist or a dietician or someone in the mindfulness space. So really understanding what they need personally and then going from there.
SARA: Yeah. Those are great suggestions. And I love that you are trying to focus on small changes. That comment has resonated because I've had multiple people on the show who have said, Hey, you can't change this overnight, right? You, you know, maybe changing how you shop at the grocery store, right? But it actually is a little bit more challenging, I think, than many realize, maybe as a single person or maybe as a couple, it's a little bit easier. But when you have kids, it's a little difficult. And I do talk about my kids in terms of like, you know, it's a give and take sometimes, right? And yeah, so that's, that's one aspect around nutrition.
I think stress is, I'm glad you mentioned that because it is so critical to our long-term health. And as somebody who I would like to say in the past had dealt with like health anxiety and just anxiety in general, it can be a very difficult mountain to climb.
And I think if people are thinking of ways of practicing mindfulness and reducing stress around your previvorship or survivorship or challenges that you have in your health, just know that every day that you do something to help minimize that in the long run, you will see actually an aggregate of that stress reduction.
That's something that since I found out, especially since I found out my diagnosis, interestingly, knowing that I have a health plan, that I have a team that I have done preventative actions and, and put steps in place to minimize my risk that actually has lowered my health anxiety, I think to putting those practices into place, I'll use a for instance, I have an app called Welltory on my watch that will trigger when I'm having high stress. And what it is using is my heart rate, right? And it can differentiate when I'm increasing my heart rate because I'm exercising or going upstairs, for instance, or if it is actually caused by stress, it also tracks my sleep. And it will tell you if you actually had sleep that was, that helped improve your recovery and or if you did not and sleep is huge in terms of stress, in fact, distress.
So I don't know if there's any elements you want to add to this, but I think managing your stress and understanding it can take months of one or two simple things that you're doing to reduce your stress. And as you mentioned, turning off our phones, especially right now, really minimizing your scroll time can be really helpful. Or if you are struggling with say, the outcome of this week's election, which is when what's happened in the past few days here, if you are stressed about, you know, something as impactful as that, find your people, find a community, find somebody you can talk to, and in, sure, that's a short potentially, hopefully a short term stress, right, but there are ways to kind of manage that.
And I think finding those small, small wins might take several months for you to actually feel the physical impact of that stress reduction. So all that to say, there are small changes that can actually have a larger impact over time.
NATALIE: So I love that. Yeah, I love that so much. Because like you said, I think a lot of times patients will come and they look when they want when we're talking about, you know, what they can do for risk reduction, recurrence, you know, risk reduction, etc. I think people look at the end goal and they're like, Oh, my God, I'm doing so many bad things. It's so overwhelming to think about all these things. And I think, like you said, one, support system is so underrated. And the mind connection to all of this, you know, is so underrated.
Two, I also think if we can take small baby steps and celebrating the wins, even if it's just today I got into nature, you know, what, whatever that is for you. I think that's so important, like you said, just to, it may not feel like a lot, but the more that you do, the more it will build, like you said, and especially so with stress reduction, and then everything, you know, in health as well, if you're trying to cook more, etc.
So I always say, you know, instead of focusing on the angle where you want to be, you know, focus on just little things you can do focus on today. And also something I love is that neurologically, we know that the more you do something, the easier it is for your brain to do that again. So, you know, just keep going, taking it day by day, and those little things will become easier. And then, yeah, like you said, I think that's why genetic counselors and why I love to see patients and play a role in this journey for them is because we do have the ability and capacity to spend time with patients to, you know, really assess and help them through the psychosocial and psychological components of this, and then also be a guide.
And so I always say with with the way that my practice is set up to is I can see patients for longer than just, you know, twice. And so I always say I really, and like you are, you know, it seems like at this place, I always say that we I want to leave the patient feeling empowered and not overwhelmed or fearful of, you know, of their risk. And so, and, you know, leave with confidence. And like you said, my experience with patients is they feel actually better when they have a plan. So, you know, I think that's just such a powerful component of it.
SARA: It really is. Thank God for genetic counselors…
NATALIE: Yes, I am obviously biased.
SARA: …but no, seriously, we need to keep pushing for more genetic counselors for sure.
So, okay, let's tie in then that anxiety or fear, like you said, you want your patients to leave feeling empowered. And you've used the Titanic analogy in the past about genetic awareness. So can you discuss how this perspective of the Titanic really empowers rather than instills fear in your patients?
NATALIE: Yes, yes. Okay, so I love using this analogy. So basically, the way that I describe it to patients is that in the Titanic, we obviously all know the story. A lot of people don't know in the story, though, that apparently the captain of the Titanic ship was warned about the iceberg, but didn't listen and didn't didn't listen until it was too late.
The reason I like to use this analogy is because if we view the iceberg as cancer, genetics is the ability to see the iceberg before we hit it. And so knowing your genetic predispositions is about empowerment, because if we're able to see the iceberg, the iceberg early, then we can change the course. And we have the time and the ability to not just slam into the iceberg and then be stuck in a situation where with cancer, you know, unfortunately, it could be too late. And so I love using this analogy because it allows us, you know, allows patients to understand, you know, rather than avoiding knowing the information like the captain did, and the warning signs, and rather than just avoiding that knowledge altogether, and then potentially running into the iceberg when it is too late, you know, we have the ability to know that information and then feel empowered and avoid that.
And so of course, I do want to validate that, you know, this can be information that can be hard for people. And so that's, again, why, you know, we will meet with you. And first, before we do testing to see where you are mentally at, and you know, where you feel that there are benefits and limitations to the testing. But I think that this is such a helpful analogy for people to understand why we can, you know, the power of knowing and how knowledge is power.
SARA: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. All right. So as we wrap up, I would love for you to share where listeners can find more information about you about golden genetics online, how they can maybe reach out to you for personalized genetic counseling or integrative health support.
NATALIE: Yes, I would love to connect even if you just have questions for me, you can find me on my Instagram at golden genetics health. And I am the one who responds to direct messages. So you can always direct message me through there. But also if you want to look into more about my practice and you know, what we offer, you can go to our website at www.goldengeneticshealth.com.
And then we're also again active on Instagram and Facebook. So feel free to directly reach out to me on Instagram @goldenhealthgenetics, or you can also find a contact me page on my website where you can email me directly as well.
SARA: Awesome. Thank you. Is there anything else that you would like to add to the conversation today before we close out the podcast?
NATALIE: I'll just add, you know, please don't be fearful or afraid to reach out to me and also others in the space. I think there's so much power in connecting with others and know that you're not alone in this journey. So I think obviously, you know, the community Sara's building and has built is so amazing.
And so, you know, reach out to people. I'm here for you. We're all here for you on your journey.
SARA: Awesome. Thank you for that. All righty. Thank you so much, Natalie.
Again, if you want to learn more about Natalie's work or seek personalized genetic counseling, you can reach her at golden genetics. I will have all of the links in the show notes and feel free to drop her a note on Instagram or on her website.
And remember, if you enjoyed today's episode, please follow us on your favorite podcast platform to make sure you never miss a conversation. If you're interested in speaking opportunities or sponsoring the podcast, please reach out to the podcast or through our social media channels. I thank you all for tuning in and keep empowering yourselves through knowledge. And until next time, take care and stay positive.
Referenced Resources:
Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, INHC on Instagram.
Golden Genetics Health website: A genetic testing & counseling practice that embraces the best of both modern medicine & alternative practices - an integrative approach.
PanCan - Pancreatic Cancer Action Network: organization dedicated to fighting pancreatic cancer in a comprehensive way.
Illustrator Mark A Hicks - Please check out Mark's talent for sharing cancer information in a creative and understandable way.
FORCE: Facing Our Risk of Cancer Empowered: A community-driven organization supporting people affected by hereditary cancer with resources, education, and advocacy.
PositiveGenePodcast.com: The official website for The Positive Gene Podcast, featuring blog posts, show notes, and additional resources from each episode.
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